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A while back I asked John if he had any side profile patterns of varous Martin body styles. I've been recieving a lot of requests for side bending and I knew John has them all. He asked if I had a router table or a shaper and this is what he sent. Actually two. One for OM, 000 and one for dread, and J series.

The piece laying on an angle is a plywood filler strip that can be removed if you want deeper sides. When i n place it gives 000, OM side depth.
Thanks John
More pic's here
http://www.rctonewoods.rcefaluguitars.com/shop_pics.htm

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The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

   Thanks for the plug Zootman. Keep the pinkies out of moving parts.
John.
PS thumb is scabbing up nicely. Only bumped it 1000 times today

I agree
great service
great knowledge
fair price

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

Well you won't believe what I did today. Touched a hot 300+ deg. metal slat. Blisters on index , middle and ring finger tips. Got them all bandaged so I could work.

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Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
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The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

Woah, hold on there, Side profile patterns? Have mercy on this newby builder and post those babies!

I have no idea how to profile the already bent sides of my current project. Patterns seem to be a slick solution to the problem. I may have to make a paper pattern of my crappy Art & Lutherie guitar's sides to get this thing finished.

Kurt

If you've got a radius dish, profiling the sides is simple: prop up the head and tail blocks on your dish, at appropriate heights (taller block for the tail than for the headblock), take a piece of wood, rest it next the sides, mark where the depth you want is, drill a hole, stick a pencil through, and draw your way around the body. Voila, marked! Next, saw/plane/chisel off most of the stuff, and fine-tune/clean up with the dish. Done.

I haven't bothered using side patterns, because I haven't settled on consistent dimensions, tapers, etc. for any single model. Besides, making them one-off takes all of about 15-20 minutes, including sanding.

Bob, sorry to hear 'bout your fingers, and as i said to Bruce lately, please be careful cuz i'd like to be able to shake a full hand with you one day!

Serge

Serge thank you. I look forward to that.
Mattia your right about that and I have profiled sides that way many times. However when your looking for repeatabillity like I am you can't beat a pattern jig. Takes less than 10 seconds to profile a set of sides. Beside that I wanted my fellow OLF'ers to see another way of doing things. Bobc38743.3516203704

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Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

   Hi Bob
   Welcome to the Bandaid of the week club. Jigs are a great way to make the process repeatable.
john the jigger

hope you feel better Goomps.

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

Okay, John, Jigger is good, but how about this new name for yourself: Jiggernaut! I like that profiler. Me, I'm still stuck in the dark ages drawing a pencil line off the pattern and heading for the bandsaw.
JOHN the JIGGERNAUT

Mattia, I'm interested in your method of marking the sides for profiling. I confess I couldn't follow your description, however. Can you try again, or post some pics? Maybe posting a new topic for it would be a good idea, too, since others who'd also be interested might not find it under this topic.

It would be much appreciated.     Todd Rose38743.4556134259

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

Bob: ouch! Hope those fingers heal up. And I completely agree that a template is the way to go if you know exactly the shape and size of what you're making. Since I rarely do, well, not much point for me.

Todd: I didn't come up with myself, and I can't take pictures this time 'round (nothing to take photos of right now, sadly), and I don't know where I read about it, but I'll try in more precise language:

- The taper of the back is pre-determined. Let's say the depth at the heel is going to be 3.5", and 4.5" at the tail (bit extreme, but still).

- We'll assume that the the blocks (tail and head) are already cut down to size; they're the height of the final, finished thickness of the guitar (minus plate thickness, and ignoring any effect of top arching for the moment)

- Take two pieces of wood, same height, and place them on the radius dish, and rest the guitar on them (one piece of wood 'propping up' each block), back towards the dish.

- Your body will be 'tilted' towards the headblock, because it's shorter. The unprofiled back edge of the sides will be an uneven distance from the dish, but shouldn't be touching it (if they are, you need bigger 'props' to hold up the body by its blocks)

- What you want to do now is somehow 'trace' around the whole rim set, keeping the distance between the dish surface and the pencil point the same. Easy solution: piece of scrap with a hole drille through it for the pencil. This contraption (keeping pencil equidistant from dish surface) is used to 'trace' around the rimset, marking the profile.

- To make a wedged body (that is, on that also has a side-to-side taper), you can angle the surfaces of the block propping up the head and tailblocks, and to the same kind of thing, or blace bl

- Even easier altenative: if the rimset is perfectly square, sides an even width/depth all around, and parallel, you simply take one piece of scrap, the height of the difference between headblock and tailblock (ie, the amount of taper), place it near the headblock, and prop the rimset up on it; the sides will touch the dish at the tail, and be elevated by the amount of taper at the head end. Trace around as before.

Hopefully that helps a bit. Basically, you're propping up the guitar so that the imaginary 'flat' plane of the taper is horizontal to the imaginary 'flat' plane of the dish. If that's still vague, I'll try to draw a picture :-)

Todd and Mattia,

Mattia, if I read your description correctly, Keith MacKenzie's Side Profiler in Jigs, Tools and Techniques at the top of the forum page appears to show the gist of your method, only upside down. Instead of the two pieces of wood you use, he has 3 dowels sticking out of his outside form which support his dish.

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now known around here as Pat Foster
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    You guys are makeing an easy job very difficult. To figure a side profile from an exisitng guitar you can trace that off with Alum foil. works like a dream.
      If you are trying to make a new side you need to know the finish height at the tail and neck. If you are using a radius disk give yourself a little extra and do the wedge trick.
     This is what the jig is all about. You can make a pattern then use that to get a rough shape. The dishes are the way to go to make the shape perfect , but why kill yourself when you can rough out the shape.
john hall
    More to life than sleeping.

So Bob, are you offering pre profiled as a service?

Michael if it's a profile I have sure.

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

I'll say it again...Bob, YOUDA MAN! (Super man, it would seem~! )

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http://www.presnallguitars.com

Thanks Larry. I didn't think you noticed.

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

I'm explaining it difficultly, that's certain, but none of my models are standards. Also, it takes a lot longer to type out than it does to actually do.

Excellent explanation Mattia!

If you want a method even more complicated Mike Doolin has a GAL article (Issue #76 I think) and the current GAL has an article by RM Mottola.

Thanks! Doolin's 'complicated'/math-y explanation is on his website, too:

http://www.doolinguitars.com/articles/sidecalc/

Gotcha, Mattia. Thanks!

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/